“If the health care sector was a country, it would be the 5th largest emitter of carbon dioxide.” In this episode we emphasise why the climate change crisis is also a global health crisis. We further discuss the biggest culprits of carbon dioxide emissions and whether climate change policies are fair and equitable for low-and-middle-income countries. As always, we round it off with thoughts on global and personal steps we can take to address the climate crisis.
Who do you think is the weakest link when it comes to addressing the climate crisis? Share your thoughts with us at worldhealthinvestigation@gmail.com
Enjoyed the episode? Please share and give us a cheeky 5 star review :)
Make sure you follow us on our socials to get our latest updates.
Like what you hear? Please leave a like, subscribe and share.
Additional resources:
Climate change is a health emergency | Hanna Linstadt | TEDxCherryCreek - https://youtu.be/iizxKSFugaM
Survivors of Cyclone Idai struggle to survive with no government help - https://youtu.be/FTmhP1KeEcM
https://twitter.com/Musvanhiri/status/1237811518638612480?s=20&t=PIpiVU2KBULlHrXYXjRtow
HEALTH CARE’S CLIMATE - FOOTPRINT HOW THE HEALTH SECTOR CONTRIBUTES TO THE GLOBAL CLIMATE CRISIS AND OPPORTUNITIES FOR ACTION https://noharm-global.org/sites/default/files/documents-files/5961/He
Follow us on our socials so you don’t miss anything!
“If the health care sector was a country, it would be the 5th largest emitter of carbon dioxide.” In this episode we emphasise why the climate change crisis is also a global health crisis. We further discuss the biggest culprits of carbon dioxide emissions and whether climate change policies are fair and equitable for low-and-middle-income countries. As always, we round it off with thoughts on global and personal steps we can take to address the climate crisis.
Who do you think is the weakest link when it comes to addressing the climate crisis? Share your thoughts with us at worldhealthinvestigation@gmail.com
Enjoyed the episode? Please share and give us a cheeky 5 star review :)
Make sure you follow us on our socials to get our latest updates.
Like what you hear? Please leave a like, subscribe and share.
Additional resources:
Climate change is a health emergency | Hanna Linstadt | TEDxCherryCreek - https://youtu.be/iizxKSFugaM
Survivors of Cyclone Idai struggle to survive with no government help - https://youtu.be/FTmhP1KeEcM
https://twitter.com/Musvanhiri/status/1237811518638612480?s=20&t=PIpiVU2KBULlHrXYXjRtow
HEALTH CARE’S CLIMATE - FOOTPRINT HOW THE HEALTH SECTOR CONTRIBUTES TO THE GLOBAL CLIMATE CRISIS AND OPPORTUNITIES FOR ACTION https://noharm-global.org/sites/default/files/documents-files/5961/He
Follow us on our socials so you don’t miss anything!
Edna: The tee is very hot Loza hot, temperatures, global warming. Guys today we're talking about climate change. The climate crisis.
Jocelyne: Crisis
Loza: The global north yeah this is the one that scares the Europeans. Malaria might be coming to your doorsteps. If it's essential to travel, of course, I'm not saying never travel, I travel
Jocelyne: Your few hours of pleasure is causing years of historical damage.
Jocelyne: Hello, globies. Welcome to World Health Investigation. My name is Jocelyne.
Edna: I'm Edna.
Loza: And I'm Loza.
Edna: We are three young global health professionals and your hosts for the World Health Investigation podcast.
Loza: Also known as the WHI. We'll be discussing all things global health and unpacking the most controversial health and social issues.
Edna: As well as promoting new-wave global health development and equity.
Jocelyne: So, ladies, what is the tee in global health?
Loza: The tee is getting hot
Edna: The tee is getting hot Loza hot, temperatures, global warming.
Loza: Come and see connections
Edna:Guys today we're talking about climate change. The climate crisis.
Jocelyne: crisis.
Loza: Is it a global health crisis?
Edna: Is it global health issue? Is it even our problem? Why do you need to think about climate change and global health? Well, Um, I want it to begin with the little example case tends to just showcase people.
Lovely. You know, my first instinct was to think about cyclone idai, which if you remember, hit Zimbabwe, Mozambique and Malawi and it actually estimated to have killed around 1,300 people. And so what happened was an example of in Mozambique, for example, they experienced a cholera outbreak right after, or shortly after the storm hit.
And this is because as we know cholera is spread by water contaminated with sewage, for example. And obviously after the storm, um, people were saying, for example, there was stagnant water. It wasn't draining. Because a lot of people had died. They were just decomposing bodies. General a lack of good hygiene and sanitation, which obviously then the cholera outbreak.
And then I think another thing that maybe people don't realize about like climate change, like events like this or other climate events, like this is the mental health impact. You know, for example, people were reporting a lot of like post-trauma disorder because their houses were destroyed. So obviously all their belongings are gone.
They may have lost family members, et cetera. So I don't know are you guys convinced that maybe this is a global health issue, climate change?
Loza: Yeah. That was convincing.
Jocelyne: You convinced me right now. No, climate change is a crisis. It's a global health crisis. We're seeing the signs. Very,
Edna: yeah.
Loza: I mean this in itself. It's not something to be scared about. It's coming in the future.
Jocelyne: Like it's happening right now.
Edna: Right now. So, yes, I think because I know in the world we do have climate change deniers in general.
So I want us to try do something where we just let's let's establish the facts. Let's go back to our basics and also discuss how it actually impacts health in general. Number one, global warming. It is happening. It's true. It's true. It's true. Current scientific consensus says that the average global temperatures are rising.
Now, whether you think that's human made or whether you think it's just natural, you know, besides the point the science is showing that global temperatures are rising. The Earth's temperature is thought to have risen is rising by 0.08 degrees Celsius per decade, ever since 1880. That's just facts.
Loza: And that might not seem like a lot to you, but like small changes in the Earth’s temperature will bring on chaos
Eda: chaos.
Jocelyne: Yeah and it's been predicted that at this rate, we don’t just need to stop the carbon dioxide emissions from rising. The carbon dioxide emissions need to go to zero for the earth’s temperatures to stop increasing. We're not, it's not enough to say Yeah we’ve reduced our CO2 emissions. No. At the moment, if, if, if carbon dioxide emissions are not reduced to the minimum, minimum, minimum level, temperatures could rise up to even by two degrees by 2045 and even more to four degrees by 2080.
Edna: 2045 is not that far guys. That's when we'll be like 46, like yo.
Loza: that's very soon. That's very soon people
Edna: And you may be wondering how this can then impact the human body. So if you go back to your physiology, you know that the human body, usually your temperature is hghly regulated to stay to like 37 degrees Celsius. Now any like really small deviation from that 37 degrees Celsius is when, you know, when you're feeling fever and stuff like that it can be very bad.
It is estimated that because of these higher temperatures, they make it harder for bodies to continue to regulate. So people can experience heat exhaustion and stroke.
Loza: Yeah. And you see that already, like with heat waves, especially elderly people, like a lot of them die during heat waves. So it might not seem like a big deal to you, but it is a health crisis in a way.
Edna: Yeah.
Jocelyne: And not just elderly people like pregnant women as well. Neonates, babies, premature babies. many, many more people who have risks. So there are so many, there's so many, uh, potential impacts of climate change on health. And it may not happen to you directly now, but it's coming.
Loza: It’s coming. Yeah. That’s one thing I want is specific, sometimes you think I'm healthy. I’m good…Yeah for now
Edna: For now, we're now know stuff.
Loza: Consider other people
Edna: Consider other people. Fact, number two. Okay. Worsening air quality. Obviously currently, as we continue to burn, bossil, fossil fuels, I cannot talk today. As we continue to burn fossil fuels, we're not just emitting greenhouse gases, like carbon dioxide, methane, but we're also releasing toxic pollutants into the air.Right? So there's like particulate matters, like solid things, like, you know, dust, dirt, soot and smoke. And bad air quality is definitely not good for your health.
Loza: Yeah, we've been knew. I mean, I've, no actually, this isn't funny. This is very scary, but sorry. No, I just, I read like very recently there was a paper by Kings College London, where they, um, showed that children born in certain parts of London like the Tower Hamlets literally had reduced lung capacity and reduced lung development because of the poor air quality. Like in the place that they were born in and grew up in. So they're going to be at risk of, you know, um, lung related diseases in the future because of pollution. Um, so why is that not a bigger public health crisis right now?
Edna: I don't know, in fact, yes, but air quality and just breathing in all these particular matter like smoke, it can cause inflammation, leading to asthma chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, which is disease of the lungs, pneumonia. And long-term people think, you know, you can even develop lung cancer from that. The WHO even predicts that air pollution is estimated already to cause 7 million premature deaths. 7 million people already ready we think are dying from poor air quality.
Loza: The environment affects health.
Edna: The environment affects health. Number three, we are seeing more extreme weather events. So like we saw with our cyclone Idai, for example, increasing frequency and severity of extreme weather events. So I remember last year, 2021, we experienced so many wildfires. It was in California, France, Greece, Russia. You think of a cold, cold place like Russia, they were having like wildfires.
They were hurricanes, floods in Germany, Switzerland as well, like flooded for a bit. And you may be thinking, okay, flooding health. Well, extreme weather can cause injury like actual physical injury. You can experience trauma. And then in the aftermath, like we saw with cyclone Idai there can be infectious disease outbreaks that can come, uh, after such an extreme event, people, you know, flooding, mudslides, whatever it may be, you can reduce people's access to health services, they experience power outages, and that's going to affect how you store medication, for example. Right now we know with COVID, the big thing was cold chain supply
Loza: for Pfizer and them.
Edna: Exactly. Um, You can be like, the event happens this month, but then months later, like we're still experiencing, you know, the aftermath.
Loza: Yeah. Hey, come and see facts.
Jocelyne: No, no it's so, I mean, I get shocked but I don't get shocked. Even when I heard the Amazon rainforest being on fire. It's becoming a desert. The whole, do you remember, Amazon rainforest,
Loza: the lungs of the earth. It was called. And now it's just. It's scary to think about.
Edna: Yeah. So next thing, the next fact is we are probably going to be expecting a spread of infectious diseases, like increases in we’ve touched upon. Increase in water and air temperature is going to move diseases like Lyme disease, cholera towards the global north
Loza: global north, they are, this is the one that scares the Europeans. Malaria might be coming to your doorsteps. I'm just telling them, you know,
Jocelyne: I remember reading a paper around how potentially if you have extremely high temperatures or any extreme form of temperature change, now you're shifting, uh, the evolutionary tendencies of these pests. West Nile. I remember reading somewhere about with like snakes, for example, if you have, um, maybe due to climate change, like snakes on there are no longer as many snakes, so then you have more and more rats. And now that we don't have…you have more rats now, that means for that particular, for that particular environment, it's not good. So if you have more rights now that means that you have more rats to eat more insects and then me insects that rust is the inside and vice versa. And then now we go ahead, happened to go into the forest. We get infections. The west Nile virus was no stop. It started off with the Muslim. So if you have a mosquito, if you have an increase in mosquitoes and now you have human being that happens interact with those now we'll have a west Nile virus outbreak as well as all right.
Loza: Yeah. Like, I mean, as you encroach into the habitats of like animals and as you go into where they are, and you're having more contact with. Then most infectious diseases are zoonotic. So that means, you know, like it's transferred from animals to humans. So yeah, like that's a big thing of like being considering the environment.
When you talk about health is as we encroach their habitats, we're going to get their diseases and COVID, we don't know for sure which animal gave it to us, but it is very likely. We got it from the situation from seafood supermarkets or from bats, but as arguments, which particular animal,
but yeah, and I think, yeah, I like what you said of like we're messing with the equilibrium of things. And so then it's kind of creating this feedback loop of. More diseases and more,
Jocelyne: we're going to have more infectious diseases.
Edna: Are we really going to die? Me?
Jocelyne: Yeah,
Loza: no, that's fear-mongering
Edna: no, I just think it's important to notice that if these is moving back to the global north, because there is this narrative of like infectious diseases typically just affect the tropics. And that's why we perhaps, you know, we have neglected tropical diseases, infectious diseases, because we think it's a problem of the tropics and.
You're in the global north. We just need to focus on our chronic conditions and all these things, but no, baby, no change is going to force those infectious diseases back to your though,
Jocelyne: and just think about it. Yeah. This week. But most of the reasons why they are the infectious diseases in the tropics is used to temperature and temperature changes.
Now the whole world becomes hotter.
Loza: That's what I mean, malaria is at your doorstep
Jocelyne: all going to be in trouble. So we're all in this
Loza: together.
Edna: Um, okay. And then the last two points are on what's a security and food security. Of course. Yeah. So in terms of water, flooding can contaminate water and reduce people's access to safe and clean water. And we know that is very much just like a basic human need and just the basic health needs security as well.
We can have droughts, you know, increasing in temperature, causing droughts and you know, that's going to spoil. Crops. And again, like we're seeing, we have different were encroaching on different animals, um, habitats and stuff like that. They can not just come in and start contaminating our own crops.
That's going to lead. That's going to cause some food insecurity there
Loza: and even like drought. That's the one that gets east Africa a lot. Like, so it's yeah. As the temperatures get a hundred, maybe for Europe, it's like, okay, we can miss one weather, but like, it gets really hot for us. And like lack of rainfall.
Again, leads to food insecure.
Jocelyne: Yeah, I'm usually thinking of color as well. I'm thinking of the color of the color outbreak in Haiti. Um, literally as there was a floods, there was a flood and that led to what pollution of water, right? As the water got polluted as how people were color and there was color outbreak.
So maybe European that may not happen is any, but if, if. That happens as well in any country. It is very, very possible that you're going to face consequences of not just, um, not just, uh, all hot temperature or whatever it affects people it's causing outbreaks it's causing major, major, major infectious disease company.
But,
Loza: and as we all know diseases, you know, they don't order. So what happens on one side of the world will show up at your doorstep to
roaming is
Edna: favored by everybody
Jocelyne: getting hot, their teeth, getting parked.
Edna: And I, again, just want to emphasize the mental toll, like that just cannot be ignored. Like these extreme weather events, they can be very traumatic wooden food. What type of food insecurity display that can be caused? Can drive anxiety, depression post.
Loza: Can we even talk about like climate change refugees, like people that will be displaced from their homes they're coming. Because of climate change and the mental toll that will take as you literally
Edna: don't have a country anymore. Yeah.
Loza: It's yeah. There's a lot to consider when it comes to climate change.
And how
Edna: so do you guys, do you have any doubts in your mind that climate change has health impacts?
Loza: Yeah,
Edna: I would tell you. She said, I said, all of this, I give you all these facts.
Loza: Climate cheaters are real guys. Please Loza. I'm joking. I'm joking. I'm joking.
Jocelyne: Sorry, Emily. I'm still being kinda cold. So it ain't about climate change, but I'm feeling a bit cold.
Can you fix that? Can we talk about that?
Edna: But can we also talk about the fact that we are like what's end of February right now? It is hot
Loza: outside. I've never seen February
Edna: like this in my life. The sun is shiny. Some allergies I'm like, oh, spring
Loza: is on your doorstep.
Jocelyne: If you live in the United Kingdom, London, you would understand how chaotic the weather is.
With rain and then it starts snowing and then you have heal and then it's sunny and it starts snowing again. And it starts being raining. We've had that before, and then we'll have winds that we had a what's her name? I said, hello. Hello. You know, you need to know who I'm talking about her because she personally affected me, affected me.
Oh, the tree that you look for them on the train wreck that the trees are falling on on people that, that trees, the wind was the, also the, you know, the also in London, United Kingdom, it blew off the roof. Oh, you want to tell me that climate change does not exist? It was so traumatized. Goodness. The
Loza: you
Jocelyne: can get anything but the old, so
Loza: this is where the serious
Jocelyne: you see, I was minding my business, but you just want it to carry me to the edge. Take me to heaven before my time. Did I say I want to go.
Loza: I said,
you
Jocelyne: have no trace
Edna: by me. You still raise some really good points there, but like you see it disrupted transportation. There's people that have to get places.
Those people wouldn't go. What if your boss is not very right? There's a tree here. And they're like, but you must come to work. And they'd be like that. You know, like that. And also, I mean, like on the most serious, the way people who are experiencing power outages, and obviously it's, it's still winter. It's not like it's.
Jocelyne: And I haven't heard my friend, I have my TV, like, oh, I have to go. I have to go back to, I have to go back to work, but it have Congo to work because this is the word supposed to stay at home. But my boss, his boss is sending him to go to work, go to work. So now I was actually sitting down at home praying like, please go and let this not beat this time.
It's time. Because if he goes and something happens, it causes conflict. It's in relationships causing major problems in the works in the workplace, which
Loza: ultimately can affect how too, because again, social determinants, mental health. I mean, even if you lose your job or health, does. Anyway, as long,
Edna: it's also very interconnected, I think.
Yeah. We just want to go through this cause we know, because we know that people won't deny it, but we establish the facts. Right. So now let's move on to the corporates and mixing all of these couple of dioxide. What these greenhouse gases you.
Loza: Yeah, I saw you use a plastic straw yesterday. So I think,
Edna: I think
Loza: also you want to leave.
Is that like a zero glasses? I see
Edna: plastic in there too. When did you get,
Jocelyne: um, excuse me. Um, I'm drinking from a metal. I don't, I don't do anything plasty. I make sure I do my recycling, but again, we're not talking about individuals
Edna: here. Let's get. Yeah, because
Jocelyne: it's,
Loza: I want to address Jeff and them.
Edna: Right. We know that in the world, top three biggest emitters are China, United States of America.
Right? I mean, I've seen a lot sometimes when people talk about. Who, and it's the most global carbon emissions though. Talk about all low to middle income countries contribute 63% of global company asking me, why are you asking? Why you
Jocelyne: always, I
Loza: mean,
Jocelyne: why did they group everybody together? The fact that you can group all of them, all of us.
And he say 63%, Y you were always lying. You always lying.
Yes. Siri is
Edna: the no. Right. But I also want to shift our attention to. Healthcare itself and healthcare sector, because we do have ambitions that we break down in terms of like how each country is emitting, but let's try to think about health, the healthcare sector. Right. So did you guys know that the healthcare sector accounts for almost 5% of global dioxide.
Dave Cooper dioxide, carbon
Jocelyne: dioxide, corporate. I mean, it's become, we might as well call it global the anxiety,
Edna: almost 5% of global carbon dioxide emissions. They think if healthcare was a country, it would be the fifth largest. She testified
Loza: did not know until today. That's crazy.
Jocelyne: We are involved. We are implicated. So hold us accountable
Edna: drag today. I will give you specific examples. So in 2017, the NHS alone, you know, uh, Justin, what is NHS? Sorry. Explain to me. I forgot. And they
Jocelyne: test the, the national health service.
It's our health, our free health. Oh,
Edna: free health. That same one. That's giving you free help. It is a good thing to around 6.3% of the.
Jocelyne: Giving people free help. Let them be.
Edna: Let's start giving us free company missions.
Loza: At the end of the day, no one can be comes from accountability.
Jocelyne: I'm not
Loza: even home
Edna: the NHS. And I just liked this quote from, from Tedros where you, he said, you know, uh, healthcare sector facilities are also a source of carbon emissions. We know that, um, and Tedros was like, this is perhaps ironic as medical professionals.
Our Kidman's is.
Jocelyne: I'm going to have that as a slogan, a slogan do no harm.
Loza: Guys
Edna: as medical professionals is to first do no harm. Places of healing should be leading the way, not contributing to the burden of disease. It was in a mood
Loza: to drag that they have
you do what you want is not wrong. He's not wrong. Um, I can, I can identify like multiple places where health can contribute to. Climate change and global warming, like, you know, all the traveling that you do for the conferences, for the single use plastic we be using in the lab.
Jocelyne: Yes. You go to a conference, you talk about climate change. You talk about you recycling, but you go there with what your private jet. I'm not acting any. Yeah. The water will oyster, but you're the waltz oyster. What are you traveling? You want to travel the world, travel everywhere in Watts, in a private.
Loza: You start card for the non British people as transportation card that you use
Edna: to thank John smart. Yeah.
Jocelyne: Thank you for clarifying. You're welcome.
Edna: Also, you bring up an excellent point because I don't know you guys, if you remember the cup 26 36, that happened in Glasgow. Yeah,
Loza: very recent. It was just,
Edna: and you'd be seeing the mother use this.
Like he has the global leaders they're writing, they're writing in their private jets
Jocelyne: summits. You are flexing on the,
Loza: and discuss about how burning wood in Africa is going to destroy the world. And they arrived on a private jet. Mickey makes sense. Making y'all couldn't share a planet.
Edna: You know what I mean?
Jocelyne: That's not a real, let's have like back a little real sacralization here. They open your private jet to go to work. When you say new,
Loza: I can talk all this stuff. And then they catch me in a private jet tomorrow,
Jocelyne: private jet to be traveling. They say,
Edna: listen, we need you to go
Loza: take a commercial flight guys class so I could look, I could feel cute, but you know, if you have money for private jet for your first class, I feel bad, man. What, what am I blamed myself doing private
Edna: jet. You're the most important? I'm like
Loza: 55 kids.
I don't need one plan for my whole self it's. Okay. I put your plane. I'm not that bougie.
Edna: I personally will not lie. Like if time they say you have to fly private because we just need to get you there so fast
right now.
Jocelyne: If I go there, I met up, I picked up the,
Loza: well, what is it? That is so important
Jocelyne: that they need to be there ASAP Rocky. I mean, this, this pandemic has shown that we're all doing everything on teams and. This right now, where in Switzerland, where some of us, I Switzerland, some of us in this type podcast, Switzerland, the UK fly every day and five minutes to come back.
I'd have to go to the dock. I know some of these billionaires are do it to.
Edna: I do want to balance this a little bit though. Like, do you guys think there's literally like no value in doing things like
Loza: virtual? No, there is value, but like, I think it's important to. Especially within global health, if we're gonna acknowledge the impact of climate change, it's important to consider is me being in person essential to the work.
Right. And if so, of course, but I think one thing, um, with COVID a lot of these organizations realized is a lot of their travel wasn't essential to their work voucher. He could do it over zoom. Yeah. That might not be as fun. And it's exciting, but you know, what's not exciting floods and hurricanes. I'm sorry.
So I think, yeah, if it's essential to travel, of course, I'm just saying never travel. I travel, but
Jocelyne: I don't know. Yeah. A few hours of pleasure is causing years of historical damage. Um, no, there
Loza: we go. Let's write that down and yeah, I think that's what it is. I think there is value to in person work, but just somewhat, sometimes it's essential symptoms.
It's not.
Edna: Yeah, I completely agree. I mean, I can see why sometimes, especially these like global leaders, these high level, why they may think it's really needed to have them in person. I don't know. There's probably something made me, I don't know, politics like that, but something about, you know, doing things, giving that strong handshake,
Loza: diplomacy,
Edna: negotiation, all these different things. I'm sure there's politics around the tech, the importance. So all of that. I think it was like a good point. Like for some of us like Miami central person, like my staff really good day. But
Jocelyne: yeah,
Loza: even for them, I think my problem wasn't even that they traveled, it's the fact that they each had their own plane.
How can you do that? It's just very counter-intuitive they're
Edna: not embarrassed. There was
Jocelyne: self isolating. Girl, there were no self
Loza: isolating when they were all hugging in front of like, what is it? That thing wishing themselves luck and doing photo ops
Jocelyne: and screenings.
Edna: Yeah.
We just keep asking about,
Loza: sorry. Sorry. Sorry.
Edna: Yeah. So I then wanted to talk. Yeah. Let's let's, let's, let's focus a little bit on like 26 buildings for like, you know, they come to this 20. What's it called 26. Yes. Maybe some outcomes, statements, excuse me. And for instance, you know, they, they, they all went, they will lead us and these are some of the things they agreed to do in terms of solutions.
Like they recognize just as we have, like the, the facts are undeniable, the climate change crisis is real. There's something done and we need to talk it, you know, lowering carbon emissions, stuff like that. So these are some of the things they say. We want to driven commitments to move away from coal power greats, you know, burning, like we said, you know, it's contributing to global warming, reverse deforestation, reduce methane, methane emissions, and speed up the switch to electric vehicles.
You know, these are just some highlights of what's what they suggesting as like a path forward. Now, my thing is. Again, I said low, um, the top, top of mixers, uh, countries. And do they have come up with these solutions? Do we think that these climate change solutions are fair and equitable? Like they, they actually make sense for all countries in the world.
Loza: They said use electric
Edna: cars. It's easy these days, right?
Jocelyne: Hmm, of course it is. All of us can just get electric cars. I have one
Loza: in my backyard. Yeah, no, no, it's not. It's not. Um, I think it's a little hypocritical to after they, well, actually not only after they polluted and they did their industrialization and delayed hours and they're still polluting to come and, you know, give these solutions are a little tone.
Deaf is not, it's not equitable.
Edna: Exactly. And the guy's not to always bang on about like colonization, but it is what it is. You know, that's what I said, delayed many, many of these European countries, people who are not admit to this, they obviously had the opportunity to have like these industrial revolutions where a lot of that progress and technological last-minute was being.
Powered by coal, for example, that contributed a lot to greenhouse emissions and all of that. But now we have suggestions, for example, of like, Yeah, let's drive away. Let's move away from coal power, right? No drink Coke. 26. There was a whole back and forth between the India, some of these countries, because they essentially, they started off by saying, we need to phase out coal power and India came in.
They're like, what do you mean phase out phase out? Like, why, so, where, where they say we need to revise.
Loza: Slowly
Edna: stop using. I completely get rid of coal power. So phase out would suggest like, yeah, we'll slowly cut it down and then get rid of it. You said, no, wait a minute. Maybe it should be faced down.
Which is what I think finally concluded, which is like, we don't want to completely get rid of coal power because obviously that is still important for different countries development. We want to just reduce. That's the compromise. They had to reach
Loza: some interesting one because there's two sides of the square.
And I remember you Justin saying, like, in order to stop global warming, like these increases in temperatures, you need to cut carbon dioxide emissions, not reduce them. But then from this perspective, it's like, okay, what is a realistic approach to do that? Because if we say India, stop using coal right now, do they sit in darkness?
Like what, what are they going to do then we need to fight. Like a sustainable approach to replace that and an affordable approach to replace coal before you kind of make demands like this.
Edna: Exactly. It is that, that's the part where I find it a bit unfair in terms of like, you cannot just ask F like for the top images.
I think perhaps it makes sense for like a lot of efforts to be focused on that in terms of cutting down these carbon emissions. I think we need to recognize that some countries are still praying to very much more denies and you know, all of these different things. So is it really fair to tell them to like, no, you need
Jocelyne: to slow that down.
Yeah. I just add onto that the Western countries, I'm going to eat their whole industrialization. Right. If they've had they've hot times, they have emitted the carbon dioxide at their time to admit to that nobody was at the time nobody could properly hold them accountable because climate change is not as much of a global health concern as it is today.
It's a bit unfair. To developing countries to not, to not do what they can to improve on their countries. I'm not saying that we should encourage them to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to pollute the environment. Well, you have to consider the fact that, okay. Yes. They, they're not the biggest polluters out there and you cannot grow as not, as I said before, you cannot group low and middle income countries together.
Yeah. And say 63%, you have to us, you have China, you have big companies, you have industries, energy
Loza: industry. I think it's targeting industries as well, more than countries. Yeah.
Jocelyne: Industries, particularly the petroleum industry, the energy industry, transport, this fashion, the fashion industry, the fashion industry, getting your iPhone.
Like added us, but let's start meeting the people that are profiting a lot from, from these, from these products are the ones that are emitting the most. Uh, the outcome and meeting the most greenhouse gases.
Loza: No, I like what you say about the industry. I think they also need to be targeted. I think they get away Scott free because they have money and they make money for the countries.
Jocelyne: But, yeah, we've been going to start telling people to stop worrying Nike.
Loza: No, like I wasn't like personal responsibilities important. I think we should all do our part to our capacity to, uh, be, you know, nicer to the kinder to the environment, but actually targeting industries and how they produce their material.
Um, you know, um, putting more research into alternative methods and all of that. I think that is. It should be a bigger priority than telling one person okay. Stop using plastic. Cause that's not really, I don't know. It's not productive. It's not productive conversation.
Edna: Yeah. Yeah. I was just going to say, to add to that.
It's. Me personally to ask me, I don't know if you guys were the same way it is. Yes. I grew up and then you're off. Like, yeah. What, what's the name of inconvenient truth? That documentary coming home very much taught from an excuse me, from an early age that, you know, You know, try to recycle, switched from plastic straws to, you know, the metallic straws, your torts, um, you know, like a lot of things that you can, a lot of action that you, as a person can take in order to Reno, reduce our carbon footprint.
But then you also see that when we talk about global levels, like Jocelyn pointed out, like there's whole industries that are like responsible for like these big, big admissions. It's not me personally on my own. That's contributing to my dirty of like the emissions it's coming from particular industries.
It's coming from very particular countries. So then it's like difficult to find this balance between, okay, where's the personal responsibility. Where can we actually have more like systemic change? Hmm.
Loza: I think that it's a challenge right now, but I often see the conversation being geared towards personal responsibility.
I'm not sure why. I think maybe it's easier to tackle if you just tell people to recycle more, but like, to what extent is that really going to address our problems? If the biggest emitters are going to are still continuing to admit.
Jocelyne: Relate with that. I remember when I was learning about climate change from primary school, from nursing school
Loza: from day one, they told us
Jocelyne: all the little talks that we had all be cycled during some illustrations or whatever. And the regional one was kind of in the individualistic con. It was that individualistic approach.
And now going up and now see that. There are a lot of other factors that have not been addressed. They have, why have they not been taught to us? Talk about climate change, climate education, like geography. I don't know if she got a little, so you can jump off in the IB. Right?
Loza: We did a lot of climate change
Jocelyne: with you feel cause personally, when I learned all this stuff, I didn't talk enough about that industries and how exactly that and how they should be held accountable differently.
It was mostly.
Loza: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. When we did climate change, I mean, we did a lot of it, but it was the science of it. How it worked, people did it, how it affects people. It wasn't a lot of focus on the industries.
Edna: Yeah. And for me, I think. We have way past the conversation of like, okay, is climate change an issue?
I think now for me, I take issue sometimes with how we approach the solutions. One of the personal responsibility things that's really highly encouraged because I do think it's possible that, um, you know, the actions of many, many more individuals, you know, as a collective can make a lot of like a difference.
Yeah. So for instance, Cut down on our, um, consumption of animal products. It's quite popular right now. It's like milk alternatives to rely on like milk produced from cows or from animals. It's, you know, try your oatmeal, try your, try your soil, milk things, but there's issues with. Yeah,
Loza: you also, I think it comes to sustainability, like over consumption, right?
Cause people said milk alternatives. They all went to soy, but then soy was also like production was affecting the environment. Right. Focusing on sustainably derived products, I think is an ultimate
Edna: goal. It's an ultimate goal, but I think it's, again, it has taken a lot of personal responsibility to do that.
Like, like Jocelyn is saying it's not a free class that I learned about these things of like, yeah, they'll encourage you to. Switch to like different alternatives, but they may not go into like, but soy milk has these and these, you know, downsides. I would like one that requires a lot of workshop in order to do that fine detail.
I had to find that out on my own. And then I have to make the lifestyle change to be like, yeah,
Loza: that's what I want to also focus on the industries because they're. Like, yes, there's personal responsibility, but when we need to stay educated at a hundred percent, but at the end of the day, it is there. I think there needs to be some sort of responsibility on the producers to do it in a responsible and sustainable ethical way.
Yeah. I think one big thing though, in terms of like personal change, I, like, I liked seeing this, um, was as a collective, I think a change we did, I make jokes about the plastic straws, but like, I never see plastic straws anymore. And I remember it being such a big thing on Tik TOK of like, it's going to kill the turtles.
And that was the power of people. Like it was people that said, oh, I saw the problem in this. We need to change it. And then the industry's adopted. So maybe if we all collectively agree on things, we can force them to change.
Edna: Yeah. And I think Justin, you also made an excellent point where we were talking to before about like affordability of some of these things as well.
We need to consider that. Yeah,
Loza: I think, yeah, some sometimes, um, the conversation around being environmentally friendly, it can be classes because everyone has resources to, um, choose certain things. Like some things are not affordable. Yeah. Um,
Jocelyne: with. Yeah. Nice. You live in a nice apartment or to choose certain shops that you want to show.
You could go to. I don't know, a plant-based food, or you could go to certain, even to shop for your clothes. You could have what, but some people only it's it's not, is it a healthy option? No, but some people only have the choice on fat, fast food. Some people only can only if it, even in Western countries, people, some people only eat like McDonald's is, cause they can really afford it.
Loza: Yeah. Yeah. That can, that's also where it gets problematic, this personal responsibility thing. Sometimes
Edna: it's the
Jocelyne: only choice. Do you know, think that everyone should be vegan? No,
Loza: it's not sustainable.
Edna: I don't think so either because like, those are pointed out a lot, like video products that based on soy rights and production and the farming of it can actually also cause harm.
So whatever
Loza: we consume, if it's too much, it will cause harm. It's just reducing it. Um, and forcing everyone to be weakened. I mean, I don't know if it feels culturally insensitive. Telling you to cut off all their traditional foods and eat a carrot.
Jocelyne: I also understand that over, um, over consumption of red meat is a climate problem as well can cause can, can lead to, or cause it contributes to agriculture and I'm culture is also a major and we tell CO2 and other mutual CO2.
So, um, yeah, once we launch that, yeah, meat consumption is a problem. Over consumption to me is a problem last time. But it's, we, we do have to try to remain equitable. Think of other people as well. If you want to stop eating meat, some people can afford to do that. But at the same time, if you can't. It would be helpful to which, for consuming.
Edna: Yeah, 100%. I think you guys bring up an excellent point there in terms of like culture as well. Like what some of these proposed climate change solutions can mean for culture. Because a lot of places it's like already, my diets really includes like meat because I cannot afford it. Yes meat. It's like, it's a sign of like yes times are good.
Right. I'm telling these people you're better for the environment. Does that make sense?
Loza: Yeah. Yeah. Understanding the nuances of it is relevant. I'm assigning the new ones.
Edna: Yeah. So I think now we we've understood that. Yeah. There's a lot of personal responsibility and we've touched on all these various things and it is very much pushed on people, but, um, yeah, it's not enough.
That's pushed on the industries. Like I think who mentioned like the fashion industry or shins. Yeah. You know, and the issue that I find there is let's say now we know fast fashion is terrible for the environment. Do we all have enough money to be shopping in these brands that, you know, really source their matches very in an eco-friendly way.
It all these different things. No, but now does that mean you're not allowed to be.
Loza: Yeah that, no, this is a conversation it's hard. Like I think telling people, shaming people for shopping past fashion is ridiculous because no one, a woman to do pay like a hundred for a t-shirt I can't, but I think. Um, we do have an I'm guilty of this. We do have a culture of over consumption. Like we say, retail therapy.
We say, I'm going to go show, I feel sad. I'm going to buy a new thing. Um, you, you can do without that new shirt with that, you don't have to buy as often. I think that would be my advice is it's not necessarily never shop fast fashion because not all of us can afford it, but. You don't need multiple things every month.
You don't need to change your wardrobe every month. It's like, you can be fashionable with what you have, I think.
Jocelyne: And also you can be fashionable in so many ways. Like you don't always have to shop us as long as places like personally. And I've seen people with. You can do some of the knitting yourself, something you could do yourself.
It will save you money. It will save you transport. It will save you so many different things. So if you I'll be like buying food or like delivering, I don't know, Bible the words, the restaurant, every single day, you can also make your own food at home or. The slope. There's so many, there's so many just like bring a whole person to come and fix your, your roof.
Somebody just try, you know,
enjoy yourself. Then you might find yourself actually be like, okay, I'm actually good at this.
Edna: Yeah. 100%. I really liked that approach. Um, and in general, I think, yes, we don't want to have our own about personal responsibility and stuff, but I do think, I believe the one key thing that could really help in terms of like leading to bigger changes is your money.
Your money can actually make impact your money, talks, money talks, and what you spend your money on. It's very important. So here you can choose to spend your money on fast fashion, or you can choose to spend your money on, like, let me get me submitting materials. Let me go on YouTube. Let me find out how to do this.
You know what I mean? And
Loza: so cute.
Jocelyne: And the way you used to boring Justin coming soon as then coming with the fashion tips very soon. Yeah.
Edna: So that would be like my first piece of advice for people in terms of like, Things that you can do that can actually, you know, at a later stage kind of give, you know, have great impact is like use your wallet.
If you can, if you have enough money, maybe you can invest towards, you know, creative solutions
Loza: to this was for the millionaires. It's only just for the millionaires for the
Edna: world,
Jocelyne: for the people that. You don't have to wear designer from head to toe. I know some of you are
dragging me for saying this is not big. It's not every day. It is not. Sometimes you don't have to show to show that you're a fashionable person. You don't have to wear those people at a time. And I'm not saying that I don't want to. I'm not, I'm not saying that you shouldn't be fashionable. I'm just saying just, just be like,
Loza: You sound like a mom?
No, it's true. And you, yeah, as you were saying, investing.
Edna: Yeah. I mean, think about the fact that like, no, these, these, um, don't underestimate your wallet because you know, a lot of these companies, they want your money. Think about the, the, the campaigns they go on. When it's black history month, when it's pride month, there we go.
The rainbows come out, their rainbow suddenly come out suddenly. Yes, we embrace.
Jocelyne: We love
Loza: money runs the world, unfortunately. And so where you put your money. Um, we'll reflect on what changes are going to happen.
Edna: It's true. Yeah. So then my second piece of advice to people, um, but you guys feel free to chime in, I think is around you as a person, the other power that you have.
If you can vote is how you vote, who you elect to be your representative, what makers you elect and what do those policymakers prioritize?
Loza: I'm big on this. I'm big on this year and Switzerland and the referendums pay attention to them.
Edna: Yeah. I know one of the key issues here that we had to vote on in Switzerland was around like taxing off. Yeah, the terminal.
Loza: Oh, airplanes. Oh yeah.
Edna: Yeah. I think it was one of those things of like, we could vote to sort of increase the tax for airplanes or something, but the whole debate there was around like, well, that now needs me personally after people to pay more.
Yeah. But it was to put up for public vote, which is
Loza: yeah. Creative conversation. Maybe sometimes we need to sacrifice some things for the environment.
Edna: Yeah. But yeah, guys, you let policymakers that consider climate change a priority. I
Jocelyne: couldn't agree
Loza: more. I think, yeah, that was going to be my advice. But you said it, but I think at the end of the day, policy makers make the decisions and the way we can insect things is by electing them.
Cause some of, you know, some of you, people have to say, I don't have any votes, but some of your people have votes, so please vote.
Jocelyne: The environment there's only so much recycling.
Loza: What else recycled
Jocelyne: this ad somewhere saying that they've been is not magic. It doesn't just go anywhere.
There's only someone who's I can make them do. So at the end of the day, the decisions are being made by the policymakers. So if you can find a way can collectively come together.
Loza: I think it's also being in collective, like yeah, uniting actually creates change. Collectively vote. If we all collectively put our money and, you know, environmentally friendly places then, or spend our money there, then we can see a change in the right direction.
Edna: Yes, I think that's a beautiful way to sum all of this up. I don't know if you guys, any more advice for our listeners, any big takeaways from this episode?
Sorry, just to stay woke.
Jocelyne: Warm
Loza: she's sick.
Edna: You think y'all like, don't don't
Loza: to apologize.
I think you, I think you said it like with their two main points, but, um, I think just to stay informed that climate change is in a faraway concept. Um, and it's bound to affect everybody. And it's, it is something that you can do something about, like, it is an issue, but we have some power to change it and place in ways that we can.
Spend our money and legs, but also for the policymakers. And we know maybe some powerful people are listening to us. Uh, please, um,
like do better. Y'all know what I'm talking about, do better.
Jocelyne: And fortunately, or unfortunately, or fortunately we right now, we can't. We can't ignore the fact that global health is global. So you can't just focus on health and medicine. You have to think about the environment. I think about the global thing about the insects, nothing about everything even.
I
Loza: think everybody's so
Jocelyne: healthcare is one concern that one health approach, Y no, she dropped
Loza: it in last minute.
One health deal.
Jocelyne: Uh, we have learned, I probably learned to my leg. But you cannot approach how only from a scientific perspective, understand that in global health, there are so many factors. This ecosystem nature is interconnected, doubts us acting right accordingly for eight. We're not going to be able to solve.
Loza: Amen.
That was a good point.
Jocelyne: Makes sense. That's true.
Edna: All right then I guess that's, that's that's us for this episode. At the crisis impacts of global health. Thank you all for listening to yet another episode of the world health investigation podcast
Jocelyne: and I'm and we young global Hawk professionals and your host for the world health investigation forecast. Thank you very much for this city. Please follow us on our social.
Facebook walk out investigation on w forecast, memory, walk up investigation and YouTube investigation. We subscribe,
Loza: subscribe, and follow
Edna: right now
Loza: immediately. We threaten you every week,
Jocelyne: but do it now. Expeditiously, we're watching you just a little, what you.
Thank you for listening and have a lovely week.